The following was posted to the USENET Scouting forum “rec.scouting.issues” in 1997 and contains references to older versions of BSA documents. The information HAS NOT CHANGED, however, which is why I feel confident in posting this here.
There is a reference to a “Parents Guide to Scouting” which I’ve had on my whiteboard since 1997; it is complete but I am waiting until AFTER the first of the year (2012) to send it to Honor Publishing and to ask my friend Dave Tracewell to publish it for me. Why so long?
The Scouting programs have changed significantly since 1997-98 when I originally wrote the booklet; and because some circumstances in my personal life as well as within Scouting delayed the approval and publication process (in American English: the woman I asked to edit the booklet didn’t; another guy took my money and spat back the same stuff I gave him except to PDF it; and yet another person never did get back with me about the publication. I was deployed four times for significant periods of time. I lost the manuscript in a move The BSA also wanted to change the rules about trademarks, so I’ve been insuring that my publication met their requests).
Bruce asked this question on rec.scouting.issues; here’s my response followed by Paul Wolf’s great followup:
You asked the forum a short time back:
My son is a Boy Scout in BSA and I’m involved in many ways too. I’m not a Registered Adult Leader (RAL) nor do I expect to become one under current circumstances.
(He’s gay and the BSA prohibit openly gay or lesbian individuals from registration as a volunteer.)
Sorry for the circumstances, Bruce; however, there are some reasoning for it, many of which are discussed indefinitely here in this forum.
Can anyone point me to BSA-sanctioned information, preferably succinct, of what I as an adult & parent am and am not permitted to do under BSA policy?
Here’s what the BSA says and the source documents I’ve found so far. Many of these source documents, thanks to the long hours of many volunteers, are on the Web. I would suggest going to the US Scouting Service Project’s website or the scouter.com website where there are links to these documents. I’ve starred (*) those that I’m aware of that has online resources.
I’ve been working on an online Parent’s Guide to Scouting; until I ran across your posting, I thought that I was done and ready to upload it to Leaders’ Online. But I guess I’m not, by the large amount of books and materials STILL on my desk this afternoon!!
Much of what you ask for, Bruce, will vary from local Council to local Council and from unit to unit within that local Council. Scouting belongs to the unit, and to the organization, school, church, or group that sought and obtained a BSA charter to operate that unit as best they can within the BSA’s and the group’s guidelines; therefore, so far, I haven’t found any official BSA documents which state that you cannot do the following:
- -attend meetings with your son
- -participate in outings with your son
- -go on field trips with your son
- -help out with fundraising, public speaking or in other ways to support your son’s unit
- -be present when your son is recognized for his achievements
- -take photos of your son and his Scouting friends (with permission from parents and/or the Scout himself).
- -attend public BSA meetings, activities or programs with or without your son present.
(most BSA meetings and activities are open to the public and are frequently announced in local or regional newspapers; Roundtables, District Committee and Commissioners’ meetings, and outdoor activities are examples).
All of those point to an easy thread: if you are a PARENT of a Scout, you may do PARENT-TYPE things with your son while he is a member of that unit.
There are a few “buts” to those things I wrote above:
- -you may NOT interfere with the operation of the activity or event except in cases of harm or danger to your son, other individuals or yourself.
- -you may NOT do so in an “official capacity” other than the “parent of Mark, a member of” whatever unit.
To answer specifically your questions:
*1. I can’t serve as Treasurer or in any other office capacity for Troop 260;
*2. I can’t be a merit badge counselor;
*3. I can’t be the main Adult Leader on an outing.
*2. I can’t be a merit badge counselor;
*3. I can’t be the main Adult Leader on an outing.
All of these require BSA registration to serve in those roles, Bruce. In the case of Treasurer, you must be registered as a member of your son’s Troop Committee. In the case of the main adult leader or a merit badge counselor, you must be registered with the BSA in an adult capacity (not necessarily as Scoutmaster, nor as Assistant Scoutmaster; but you must be registered in some capacity (and you are also required to attend and complete the Youth Protection Training as well) ).
The source for those are found in the BSA’s Guide to Safe Scouting, available online, under the Leadership section toward the front of the document.
4. I can’t serve on a Board of Review (?)
No, again, Board of Review members (in most communities, check with your unit) are members of the Troop’s Committee. They are *supposed to be*, but some communities will find anyone around to sit in on the review. It’s one of my “personal bones of contention” with the BSA, because it didn’t used to be that way. But that’s the way its done today.
The source to this is found in the Troop Committee Guidebook and the BSA’s Advancement Guidelines booklet.
The other thing is that Scoutmasters and their Assistants can’t serve on Boards of Review either – for their sons or anyone else’.
[My son] (who does subscribe to the above without qualifiers) can participate fully despite his father’s beliefs;
He should be able to; there are some whom may want to use your “objections” to discriminate against him; don’t let them. He’s the member, not you.
Naturally.
*I can serve on outings as a 2nd Adult Leader
Yes, you may; the Guide to Safe Scouting states only that one adult must be a registered BSA member; the other could be a parent or other individual. There are some confusion about the usage of two or more registered adults (it’s called “Two-Deep Leadership”) and the leadership requirement. Units are required to have two or more registered adults when taking part in a BSA event; but the BSA has long figured out that in some cases, this isn’t possible…so that’s where the Safe Scouting guide comes into play with the one must be 21 and a registered BSA member and the other should be a registered BSA member but doesn’t have to be if the situation is such you can’t get another registered BSA adult to attend the event.
Though a non-office holder I can still do work for the Troop, such as helping with Treasury, maintaining email list, etc.
Yep, you can as long as the organization or group which “owns” your unit says you can. It’s up to them, not the Troop’s leadership, as to what you may or may not do without being registered, Bruce.
5. I can attend additional Adult Leader Training, and Roundtable
You may attend and complete volunteer training, attend Roundtable meetings, and any other training or public BSA meeting within your local Council. However, you may NOT earn training awards, keys or other emblems which require membership and/or tenure as a registered BSA member.
There is ONE exception: the Cub Scouter Award may be earned by ANYONE (which means parents too!) “associated with a Pack” (that means with or without registration) for a two year period and meeting other requirements, including training. Many parents have been recognized with this award, which comes with a square knot uniform piece (to get you to wear a uniform and once there, to get you to become registered!!)
You may also assist your local Council and its District in rasing monies or developing new units as long as you do so as a parent and not in any official capacity. And you may receive the West Fellowship and other local Council honors for your financial support to Scouting, which I hope you and others do.
In addition, I’m wondering what are the requirements with regard to driving to & from functions.
Since you’re not a registered BSA member, Bruce, those rules, while they are great ones to follow all of the time, don’t apply to you. The requirements for drivers only apply to BSA registered individuals and to those driving BSA individuals through a local tour permit.
Basically, there are a set of rules in which Scouters must follow when traveling with youth members or when traveling as part of a tour to and from a location approved in advanced by the local Council. I would still follow them, even if I’m not registered, because it makes good sense and also will keep you from problems in the case one or two of the Scouts’ parents decide to make an injury or damage claim in your direction.
Those rules are clearly defined in the Guide to Safe Scouting, a wonderful guidebook to have because it leaves little to guess…and those things to guess can be resolved by contacting the local BSA Council office and asking for THEIR clarification.
Bruce, I tell folks all of the time (its a broken record) that “you don’t have to quit being a Scout just because you’re not registered.” While not being able to wear the uniform, being recognized for your efforts, and doing the work ‘officially’ is denied to you, there are many other volunteers whom are right there backing up the registered folk and getting the job done for the reason why the volunteers SHOULD be doing it… for the youth of the program.
Don’t let the discouragement of not being able to do things “officially” get in the way of your son’s enjoyment of Scouting or your willingness to serve others through Scouting.
I would talk with the head of the chartering organization, get their opinions (which is, when it all comes down to it, are the ONLY ones that matter!), and then set out to do those things that you and your son’s Troop can “live with” and “work with”.
I haven’t found any BSA documents or materials that say you cannot attend BSA meetings, events or activities as a parent and interested party in your community. I have found many that says you cannot purchase and wear a uniform or earn awards for your voluntarily work; those things are reserved for those registered in the movement. But the real rewards extend way beyond the uniform devices and emblems…it’s the truth you and others know that you’ve done something to be of service to others.
Which is what the essence of Scouting is all about.
Hope this all helps out and sorry for the late response!
Settummanque!
Paul S. Wolf added:
KYBLKEAGLE wrote a great and, as usual, long and detailed response to some questions. One thing he said was:
4. I can’t serve on a Board of Review (?)
No, again, Board of Review members (in most communities, check with your unit) are members of the Troop’s Committee. They are supposed to be, but some communities will find anyone around to sit in on the review. It’s one of my “personal bones of contention” with the BSA, because it didn’t used to be that way. But that’s the way its done today.
Mike is right that the rule for Boards of Review, except for Eagle Scout, is supposed to consist of members of the unit committee. And, as he suggested, that rule is notable in the number of times it is overlooked, so you may be able to sit on some Boards of Review.
However, for Boards of Review for the rank of EAGLE Scout only, the membership of the Board is set up completely different. They can be held at either the Council, District, or Unit level. In each case, the Board MUST contain at least one Council or District Advancement Committee Representative. If it is held at the unit level, it must also have at least one member of the Unit Committee. The other members, NEED NOT be registered members of BSA, so long as they “understand the purpose and gravity of advancement to the rank of Eagle Scout” (or words to that effect). So you could serve on EAGLE Boards of Review (except for your own son’s).
The rules for this are in the National BSA Advancement Policies and Procedures Book (#33088A).
Paul S. Wolf, PE
Advancement Webmaster/Manager
U.S. Scouting Service Project, Inc.
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